Interview by Matt Hays
First published:

The Gateway
September 9, 1986

In July 1986 drag performer Divine - also known as Harris Glenn Milstead (October 19, 1945 – March 7, 1988)appeared in Edmonton to perform at Goose Loonies - located at the Argyll Hotel on 99 street and Argyll Avenue. After his performances he also came downtown to Flashback - Edmonton's hottest gay and lesbian nightclub. Matthew Hays managed to get a rare sit down interview with Divine and this is a re-print of that interview from The Gateway. 27 years later Matthew Hays reflected on his first celebrity interview in an article published on Queerty.com. We have re-printed the article here: https://yegqueerhistory.ca/divine-memories/
Scroll to the bottom of this article for a YouTube video of the actual show he did in 1986!

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In 1972 independent film maker John Waters released a film called Pink Flamingos. The film featured a three hundred pound star, then virtually unknown. The character was ‘Divine — the most disgusting person in the world’. The film played repertory cinemas across North America and eventually Europe and Waters and Divine both gained notoriety for their work. The final scene was particularly noteworthy: in order to prove his title as the most disgusting person in the world, Divine picks up still steaming dog feces and eats it. A star is born.

Divine continued to make films with John Waters, the last one being Polyester, which co-starred Tab Hunter. Polyester was filmed using a brand new cinematic device: odorama — audience members were given scratch ’n sniff cards, allowing them to ‘smell along’ with the action. Divine then worked with director Paul Bartel (Death Race 2000, Eating Raoul) on Lust in the Dust.

In 1978 Divine began his singing career. He has since recorded such pop disco hits as Love Reaction and You Think You’re a Man. His records sell well internationally, in fact he has several gold and platinum albums. He has toured virtually everywhere to sell out crowds, including Israel, and, before the end of the year, Japan. In 1984 he appeared on the British TV series Top of the Pops. After the program aired, the TV station was flooded with 12,000 calls all protesting his appearance. The producers of Top of the Pops decided Divine could not appear again on their show.

Divine’s latest film is Trouble in Mind, directed by Alan Rudolph, in which Divine has his first male role — as a gangster: The film has received excellent reviews, as has Divine for his performance.

Divine was performing his nightclub act at ‘Goose Loonies’ last summer. I interviewed him in his hotel room. As I spoke to him it struck me that everything I’d ever read in a Divine interview was true. Divine was charming, witty, polite and above all, candid. We discussed his film work and rumours of a Network TV series.

Gateway: After coming out of Trouble in Mind someone said to me that you’d stolen the film.

D: One reviewer from the Hollywood Reporter said that. I was quite flattered.

Gateway: In Trouble in Mind you play amob leader. Did Alan Rudolph write this part with you in mind?

D: Yes. The part was written for me. I was his first choice. He came to Bernard’s (Bernard Jay, Divine’s personal manager) office, and sort of plopped this thing on my lap.

Gateway: He had seen your work with John Waters and Paul Bartel.

D: Yes, and was a fan of that work, and he said he thought I’d be good in this man’s part. I’ve been looking for a man’s part for about 8 years.

Gateway: You’d had a male role in Female Trouble though — you played a man who raped yourself, or the female character you played.

D: Yeah, but this was a few seconds. I really didn’t get to do any acting or dialogue besides humping someone — a stand-in — which wasn’t that enjoyable, this four hundred pound monster… she wasn’t the prettiest woman.

Gateway: Will a sequel to Pink Flamingos ever be made? I’ve heard a lot about it.

D: What did you hear?

Gateway: I read John Water’s article in American Film Magazine about his attempts to get someone to back the film financially.

D: I think the whole thing was scrapped after Edith Massey died. John said he would never try to find a replacement for her or me or for anyone. As far as he’s concerned there aren’t any.

Gateway: Certainly not for Edith Massey.

D: Or me. (laughs) You’re talking to me! No, that’s true. There aren’t any other Ediths around. But really, it wasn’t my favourite script. We did enough with dogshit.

Gateway: I’d heard the proposed script was full of shit. It doesn’t have to be, it just appeared in the last scene of the first film.

D: I agree. We already did that. It’s been hard enough to live that down.

Gateway: You’ve had a lot of press with that.

D: Yes. Whether it was real or not, I’m not going to say, but the scene sticks in people’s minds .. . stuck in my throat.

Gateway: I’ve heard that scene estranged your parents.

D: For about nine years we didn’t speak.

Gateway: And how’s that now?

D: It’s great.

Gateway: I was happy to hear you’d reconciled. I read that in the New Music Express.

D: It’s real good now. They’re fans. Which makes me feel so much better because I’m an only child and of course we were very close and spent a lot of time together. Then all of a sudden you don’t speak, and as far as I was concerned, it was for no reason at all. I think they finally realized that too because I’m just doing what I love and do best and that’s being a comedian and an actor and making people laugh.

Gateway: How. did you and John Waters meet and how was it that you established a professional relationship?

D: We were neighbours. We grew up in Lutherville, Maryland. John was quite a movie buff as I was too. John just always wanted to make movies. He had a Browning Super 8 camera that his parents bought him as a present, and. we used to get together on Sunday afternoons, about ten or twelve of us. He would write scripts for us during the week and we would act them out on Sundays. Actually we did it out of sheer boredom. When I was a teenager we didn’t have discos or anything to go to. Sounds like I came out of a covered wagon or something!

There were teen centres, but they were for the nerds, no one really wanted to go to them. On Wednesday night we would all get together and have Coke and chips — Coca Cola that is — and watch the rushes. We thought we were the hottest thing since sliced bread. Finally, someone said ‘you should show these to other people. These films are funny!’

There’s a spring festival in Baltimore and John rented a hall and showed the film. It was 49¢ to get in. Some people from the University of Maryland filmmaking: school saw the film and thought it was fabulous. They asked John and I if we would come to the school to show the movie and to give the kids there incentive to make movies because ours was made for about $250.00.

I went all done up and John would come out first and he would give his long speech about movie-making and then he would introduce the most beautiful woman in the world almost (almost because I’m-a man) and I would come out having a modelling fit and then answer questions about acting, which I thought took a lot of balls. That was Our routine.

He would also help me with my first club act in San Francisco. I would push out a shopping cart. There was ground beef and fish and a telephone book. I would spin the fish around and rub them all over my body and then throw them into the audience. They would break open and splatter all over people. It was a horrible mess. Then I’d throw ground beef at the people, and then I’d rip the telephone book in half. Three guys all dressed in black would come out and lie down head to foot, I would walk over top of them and squat over their faces and flash- bulbs would go off. Then I would answer questions. This was my nightclub act at the time.

Gateway: This must have been very racey, over 10 years ago, versus today, 1986.

D: Yes, it’s come around now. People used to sit there with their mouths just open — especially if they got hit by a fish. When I did my first play in New York I played a dyke matron in a women’s prison. One convict had a pet chicken, I find the chicken and in the next scene I go into my office with a cooked chicken on my finger and I pull it’s leg off and eat it, and throw the chicken into the audience. One night it hit a man with a suede coat on, and the producers had to buy him a new coat — five hundred dollars!

Gateway: So you were well received off Broadway and on the London stage?

D: Oh yeah. I got rave reviews in London. I used to have them memorized. But I’ve had better ones since!

Gateway: Do you have any plans to work with Waters again soon?

D: It all depends on the script. If he’s going to do a Pink Flamingos 2 then no I’m not really interested. I think I’d be going backwards. I can’t speak for John but for me I don’t really feel it’s the right thing to do at this particular time in my career. I think John’s a brilliant writer. He’s one of my favorite screenwriters, and directors, and he’s one of my dearest friends.

Gateway: Is the rumour about a CBS TV series true?

D: All these rumours! I’d love to do a TV series. There are some people in Hollywood who are quite interested in me. But at this point that’s as far as it goes.

Gateway: I was wondering how any of the major networks would ever have the guts to put Divine in a series. I could see it on Showtime perhaps…

D: Oh, you’d be surprised. I’ve been up for major TV shows. They’ve usually been killed by the head of the individual network at the last minute. This is the same problem I’ve had right throughout my career. But now, many of the studio heads have changed and are young men and women who were in fact big fans of Pink Flamingos. Which is great for me! There are in fact quite a few shows I could get on at present.

Gateway: A Dynasty appearance perhaps?

D: (laughs) I’m not going to name them.

Gateway: I recall your well-publicized ban from Top of the Pops in London. Have you appeared on that show since your first time?

D: No. But one of my records was on the charts and they did cover it. They just showed parts of the video.

Gateway: I was surprised by the producer’s decision. You just sang the song, you made no suggestive gestures. Boy George had appeared on the show in drag, and no one protested. It seems people were offended by fat!

D: That’s what I said too. But I thought ‘some of the people who watch it are fatter than I am and sit home on their fat asses watching television.’ They’re the very ones who complain! They had 12,000 complaints and they say about 10 million watch the show. That’s not a very great ratio. However, my record sales doubled the next day! The only people who were ever banned from Top of the Pops were The Sex Pistols, Frankie Goes to Hollywood, the Beatles, and myself. So I felt this wasn’t bad company to keep, when it goes down in history.

Gateway: You travel a lot. Do foreign customs ever give you hassles?

D: Only in Canada.

Gateway: Really.

D: Once in Germany, and another time in Sweden.

Gateway: You’re riding a real wave of popularity right now. I’m wondering where you see yourself in ten years.

D: I’m going for it. Right to the top. Why not? all I can do is not make it.

Gateway: One could say you already have. You’re quite a cult phenomenon.

D: Oh, but I want more than that. I want Oscars, Golden Globes, Grammy’s, I mean why not? If somebody had told me five or six years ago that I’d have Gold and Platinum records I’d have said they were crazy because I didn’t sing. But now I’ve got them on the wall and if someone had said that I’d make a movie with Kris Kristofferson or Genevive Bujould I’d have told them they were crazy. These are big stars. My final scene was shot with Kris – I got to get shot by him.

Gateway: I’d like to see you get an Oscar.

D: So would I. And I will, if I have anything to say about it. Its been a dream of mine since I was a kid.

Gateway: As an outsider, what do you think of Edmonton — it’s one of Canada’s most conservative cities.

D: You wouldn’t have thought so from the crowd last night! I haven’t had a chance to see much of Edmonton. I’m going out to that big shopping mall today. I’ve heard so much about it.

Gateway: David Byrne even mentions the mall in his new book, True Stories. He discusses this weird mall with rivers running through it complete with submarines and sharks.

Some people are offended by your act. They consider you a bit of a freak — a novelty only because you’re overweight and obviously homosexual. How do you react to this?

D: They’re assholes (laughs). These are people who are uptight about their sexuality. Not everyone’s going to like me. But I’m not doing my act for everyone, I’m doing it for those who like it. Some people don’t like Dianna Ross, and all she does is get up and sing pop songs. I don’t think I’m a freak, I’m just another entertainer who happened to do something no one else had. People don’t know how to label me. Unfortunately, it seems everything has to have a label. I’ve always said that I’m a character actor, I play different characters. It just so happens that the characters that I was given to play were women. I don’t knock these roles — they’ve given me a large following.

Gateway: Boy George has said a few remarks about you to the press. These negative comments surprised me.

D: Especially when he’d be sitting in every show I did in London. Then he’d go on TV and say that he couldn’t stand me — well then why did he buy a ticket for my show? I’ve heard through people that he’s actually a big fan. Basically, he just said those things to protect his image.

Gateway: Which he’s now blown with this whole heroin thing. Can you tell me about your latest film?

D: Well, I don’t want to tell you too much. It’s titled Medium Rare. The director is Paul Madden. I have two roles, a man and a woman. Meatloaf will also star. We start shooting in September in New Jersey. I don’t want to tell you any more or it’ll ruin it.

Gateway: You’ve been interviewed by almost everyone. How did David Letterman react to you?

D: I’ve been on Late Night three times, twice by myself and once with John. David is actually a fan of John’s. He was always very nice to me. We did have a problem last time I was on, that’s why I haven’t been back. Generally, I sing a song in drag and then I’m interviewed in my normal clothes — they overran the show and didn’t do the interview. It seemed quite purposeful, so since then we’ve reached no agreement on my return to Late Night.

Gateway: Will you do Joan Rivers?

D: She’s already asked. We were set for the Tonight Show however, she had that split with Carson.

Gateway: And Merv Griffin?

D: He was the nicest of all. He introduced me and said wonderful things about me. The first commercial came on and he said ‘now you stay right here next to me for the whole show’. It was supposed to be a three minute interview. It ran for seventeen minutes and I had fifty-eight minutes on the air.

Gateway: Our very own Alan Thicke?

D: He’s quite good. He’s got his own comedy show now.

Divine’s latest film Trouble in Mind play[ed] the Princess Theatre September 5-6, 1986.

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Original issue on Archive.org – pdf version
https://ia803103.us.archive.org/16/items/GAT_1986090901/GAT_1986090901.pdf

Here is a YouTube video of the show at Goose Loonies
Courtesy B Burgess

(Due to age content warnings please click “Watch on YouTube” and agree to the content warnings)

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